MICHAEL Russell has busted Unionist myths on the mandate for a second independence referendum during a BBC debate show.

The SNP president, who is also the director of the party's independence unit, was speaking in a discussion on the BBC's Any Questions? panel show, broadcasting from Campbeltown.

Also on the programme were National columnist Ruth Wishart, Scottish Tory MSP Russell Findlay and Labour peer Helena Kennedy.

A member of the audience said that it was clear to him that "the present first minister doesn't have the courage to pursue indyref2" and asked the panel "that being the case, isn't it time for a new first minister?"

Wishart (below) said that was not the case but said that Nicola Sturgeon is being "overly cautious" on independence due to the FM saying that the question of independence will be tackled once Scotland is out of the Covid crisis.

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She said: "Saying that we will deal with the question of independence after Covid is over is this year, next year, sometime never in my book."

Wishart said that Sturgeon is an "excellent first minister" but that she needs a "new mindset in regards to progressing independence".

Findlay was elected in the Holyrood election in May to be a regional MSP for the West of Scotland on the Scottish Conservative ticket.

He said: "I would say why indeed would we even think about having a referendum during a pandemic. But even more fundamental than that is there is no mandate."

Findlay then listed statistics of people who voted on the issue of independence saying that 32% voted for pro-UK parties, 31% for pro-indy parties, and 37% didn't vote.

He was reminded by host Chris Mason that there is a majority for pro-independence parties in Holyrood.

The SNP secured 64 total MSPs in the May election - one short of an absolute majority - and the pro-indy Scottish Greens secured eight total seats.

With Alison Johnstone giving up her Scottish Green allegiance to become the parliament's Presiding Officer, there are still 71 pro-indy MSPs out of a total of 129.

SNP president and former constitution secretary Russell (below) was then asked if Sturgeon is being too cautious to which he said she was not, adding that it is "absolutely right" that she and the Scottish Parliament make a judgment on indyref2 based on the best advice that allows the most normal campaign possible.

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He continued: "The mandate is absolutely clear - how else do you get a referendum except if a parliament passes a bill to secure that referendum? 

"If Russell is absolutely determined to say those words do not [create] a mandate, what is he doing sitting here as an MSP? He stood in the Paisley constituency and got less than 10%. Whereas George Adam, the SNP candidate, who stood on the issue of independence got 50%.

"I don't challenge his right to be an MSP on the list, but please do not deny the basic democracy of people and parliament voting for something that they have said they will deliver, and will deliver."

Both Russell and Wishart agreed that the referendum should happen soon with Russell saying "it has to happen as soon as it is safe to do so".

Wishart added that she does not believe it will happen this year, but added that people like her who are "frustrated" with the lack of activity want to have the campaign kicked off soon.

She added: "Once you start a campaign going, as we found in 2014, you build support quite rapidly and quite deeply."

Scottish barrister and Labour peer Kennedy (below) then added that she wants Scotland to remain part of the UK and was critical of the current Tory government saying that the only way to remove it is "by doing it together".

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On the topic of indyref2, she said: "If a point comes, and I hope it is not very soon, but if the people of Scotland make it very clear that they want to have another referendum, I happen to be somebody who believes that Westminster is not entitled to prevent that happening."

Pressed on what constitutes that moment where people make it clear they want another vote - where Scots voted for a pro-indy parliament - Kennedy said she does not think it is "clear enough".

Russell responded: "This is extraordinary, I don't want to fall out with you Helena because I'm very glad you've made the point that if the people of Scotland vote for a referendum there should be one, but how else do the people of Scotland express their desire for one except by voting in the majority for it, producing a parliament that will vote for it?

"A bill on a referendum would pass the parliament with a sizable majority. I don't see how, if you deny that, you're doing anything other than doing down democracy. You may not like it ... but you just have to accept that if there's a majority in the Scottish Parliament for that, that has to happen, like it or not."

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In terms of the opinions on the panel on the topic of independence, the SNP were happy to see the BBC having a balance.

An SNP spokesperson said: "May's Scottish Parliamentary election delivered the largest pro-independence majority parliament ever - so political discussion panels from Scotland where unionist guests or contributors outnumber independence supporters should be a thing of the past." 

You can listen to the full Any Questions? programme on BBC Sounds HERE